Episode 5: How to Adapt Your Ecommerce Store to Changing Consumer Behaviour w/ Matt from Klarna

Pick up expert tips on adapting your Shopify or other ecommerce store to changing consumer behaviour. Learn how to generate more sales, keep brand loyalty and minimise customer service requirements. Find out more about how direct to customer brands can optimise their data to create a flawless customer experience. 

Written by
Ben Froedge

Episode 5: How to Adapt Your Ecommerce Store to Changing Consumer Behaviour w/ Matt from Klarna

You'll learn:

  • Expert tips on adapting your Shopify or other ecommerce store to changing consumer behaviour.
  • How to generate more sales
  • Keep brand loyalty
  • Minimise customer service requirements
  • How direct-to-customer brands can optimise their data to create a flawless customer experience.


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Miz Trujillo 0:02

Hello and welcome to episode five of Make Merchants Money. I am your host, Miz Trujillo, and today we are discussing how to adapt your ecommerce store to changing consumer behavior. To help us along with this discussion, we have Matt and Karim, joining us on the show. Karim is Ecommerce Manager here at Underwaterpistol. Thank you very much for joining us, Karim.

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 0:24

Thank you for having me.

Miz Trujillo 0:26

It's great to have you. And Matt is Account Manager at Klarna, a global tech bank, which amongst other things, provides ecommerce store owners with some pretty nifty payment options. Thanks for coming on the show. Matt, how are you?

Matthew Scott 0:39

Very good. Thanks very much for having me.

Miz Trujillo 0:41

It's great to have you. I guess to jump straight into the conversation, it would be good to hear a little bit from you Matt about what being a global tech back involves, the services that client provides and how these can help ecommerce store owners.

Matthew Scott 0:55

Yes, I think it's a, it's a huge sort of space, it's quite exciting space to be in. Klarna itself is nearly 14 years old. And and our real mission statement is simplifying the the buying process for the customer, but also the sales process for the merchant. So the main way that we sort of do this is by actually looking at the user experience, looking at the user journey, identifying potential sort of problem areas from the payment piece, and then solving them with new payment methods or quicker purchasing history. So essentially, simplifying that basket to completion sort of journey for the customer. And making that a smooth as possible will allow more customers to get through that journey, and therefore, more sales for the retailer, which is obviously where everything everyone is chasing at the moment.

Miz Trujillo 1:48

Absolutely, that's what everyone wants. So to tie this into our overall conversation of adapting ecommerce stores, to changing consumer behavior, it would be good to start by, by laying the foundation. Maybe, you can help with this, Karim. When we refer to consumer behavior within the confines of ecommerce, what are we really looking at? What kind of behavior are we looking for?

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 2:12

I mean, we're really looking at everything when you think about it. Nowadays, when we think about customer segmentation, for instance, that's one of the things that businesses use to be able to identify, who are the customers? What are they doing? Where are they coming from? etc. The classic way of doing it was traditionally by kind of segmenting them by age, gender, profession, etc. But nowadays, we can see a shift in these techniques. And using this kind of behavioral tracking, by looking at where people click what people do, where they come from, to actually segment them in terms of behavior. So you might have, instead of talking to customers, and trying to talk to the 30 year old single Mum, you would talk to your Instagram addict, or you would talk to your food lover, and these could be anywhere from 18 years old to 65 years old, and they could do anything as a job. And they would still be interested in the same kind of product. So when you think about customer behavior, and how it changes now it is really interesting. And it's really fascinating about the new ways that we find of really kind of creating this deeper connection between businesses and customers. So that if the experience feels more personal, and everyone's happier at the end of the day,

Miz Trujillo 3:36

Absolutely, that's what we're looking for a personal experience, and for both sides to come out of it happy Anything, you'd you'd add on this front, Matt?

Matthew Scott 3:45

No, I think that's pretty much sort of hit the nail on the head. I think segmentation based on sort of demographics. Whilst it's still important, I think actually knowing your consumer, who your average consumer is, what their habits are in social, what their habits are in physical retail, and understanding their their needs, and requirements is almost more important now than it ever has been, because you do have a very small window to be able to convert that customer. And if you can give them a better experience than they used to, then they become a brand advocate for you. And like you said, both both merchant customer leave happy.

Miz Trujillo 4:22

Perfect. So coming back to how Klarna fits into this conversation. I guess the question would be why offer different payment options, pay later options, split payment methods, how consumers behaving that warrants this, and what benefits will it have for store owners to be providing the services?

Matthew Scott 4:41

Yeah, I mean, it's a great question, it's probably the question that gets asked the most in sort of meetings, I'm privy to, I think the biggest thing from a retailer point of view is giving your customer flexibility or choice. Providing them with an experience that perhaps they're not necessarily used to. Providing that or going the extra mile as it works, giving that customer the ability to try on the product at home, and to push the actual payment day out and not not relying solely on having card details to hand for example, but also just giving that customer something that's different to what they used to different or your competitors are potentially offering and the lighting that customer by giving them a better experience. So that's kind of the main avenue that we we look at with our two, two main products. And I think if you look at online shopping as a whole it's obviously hugely expanding, really exciting market to be a part of, but the one the big drawback for for online shopping is you don't know what it's going to look like, or what it's going to feel like when it arrives. And I've been unfortunately victim to quite a few purchases online where it's arrived and it hasn't looked like the picture arrives two weeks, three weeks late. So there's always that anxiety from a consumer point of view of will it arrive fit what what what would it fit like, sorry. So our basically pay later product is our flagship product, essentially, what actually does is allow a customer to receive the goods, and then they have either 14 or 30 days to complete the payment to, to Klarna, we pay the merchant directly on this batch. So as far as the merchant is concerned, it's exactly the same as a card payment, Klarna actually absorbs the risk for from a non payment standpoint. So that's kind of how businesses view the product. From a consumer standpoint, you're eliminating that reliance on me having my card details to hand on me, knowing the retailer knowing what fit I am knowing what size I am. And also, you're eliminating a lot of the annoyance of actually inputting details at the point of purchase. And I think this is really, really important for for mobile users. So I know we're going to go on to probably discuss it more with Karim. But the mobile consumer is inherently more at risk of being distracted. So I know if I'm on my mobile and I'm browsing on a retailer, I'll get WhatsApp or I'll get an Instagram message. And then I'll be diverted away from from that channel. So ideally, you need to convert these customers as quickly and as smoothly as possible, especially on on that mobile device. And that's kind of where pay later comes in. From a from a retailer and a consumer standpoint,

Miz Trujillo 7:38

Perfect. I mean, in terms of the payment options, that's exactly what we're looking for the behavior is that people are anxious about about receiving things, because they're doing everything online. And you've got a solution for that. But you've also touched on the next point that I was going to talk about anyway, which is some of the other recent trends that we can see. And mobiles are one of them a stat from this year, I found very interesting was that 85% of online shoppers began the journey shopping on one device, say, their mobiles, but ended it on a different device, like their desktops, or vice versa. And as you were mentioning, getting distracted, is one of the main reasons this could happen on mobile devices. But maybe, Karim, how should data like this be affecting the way we look at our ecommerce stores, and the decisions we make?

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 8:27

It completely changes the game, like you said, the distractions on the mobile are infinite, when you think about it, like all the apps that you have, that are all potentially going to send you a notification and take you out of whatever you are currently doing. And especially if you're shopping, this is something that needs to be considered whether you like it or not, because businesses need to react to it if they want to be successful. And when you think about these distractions, like going back to Matt's point, Klarna is one of those tools that we can use to actually increase trust and reduce the decision making process. Because when you think about it, one of the biggest and longest time that you spend while making a buying decision is when you're actually going through the payment process, when you actually put in your credit card details when you're thinking about this final moment, is it actually worth it? And am I actually going to buy this thing? This tool like Klarna, that businesses can use actually going to reduce this this barrier and makes the customers gonna have an easier add to cart and easier checkout process so that they can actually decide later. And they don't even have to change their device because they've already placed the order. It's a no brainer. And like you said, like, if they're not happy about it, if they don't receive the right kind of product, or it doesn't correspond to any of their expectations, that's when they know they're not going to be charged. And when you think about the two main aspects about having a successful business you need for customers to like you and trust you with tools like Klarna, you really plan the trust part.

Miz Trujillo 10:07

Amazing. Yeah, definitely. Matt. I know that Klarna conducted a survey in Sweden, Norway and Finland this year, I was looking at it and found it really interesting about how online shoppers think and act. Are maybe any purchasing habits that really stood out to you from that survey or, or other data that you've collected, which you think is is worth highlighting for our listeners?

Matthew Scott 10:30

Yeah, I think we actually have a what there's two there's two main ones that I would tie into sort of this webinar and it's the first one is the info age millennial sort of deep dive that we we undertook with a couple of our data research partners. And essentially what we actually did was basically looked at the millennials as a consumer group, not simply their, so payment requirements, but also what what is there sort of on the site. So we found that millennials were excitable, but also anxious and impatient when it comes to completing a purchase. So from a business point of view, you need to make sure that you're catering to both excitement, but then also that your processes are geared up to combat as much as possible, this anxiety or the the impatient impatience of these consumers. And I think this is definitely impacted by the rise of sort of Uber, Deliveroo, this instant gratification want it now generation I think, quite a few retailers I've seen recently have sort of fallen by the wayside because they haven't understood what their consumers are feeling or what they consumers are doing on the site. And I think one of the biggest things I can say from from my standpoint, is, as a retailer, go through that user experience on a mobile. So make a purchase on your site, on your mobile, make a purchase on you or your desktop, and then compare your experience to what your consumers are telling you from sort of feedback loops or reviews and see if there are ways that you can improve the overall experience with regards to what your consumers are actually seeing that will provide a large benefit to what the end of the year, but it will also give you great insight, if your consumer actually are what are they looking for? Are they looking for a discount code? Is that really needed there? And then, or can I use that, that margin essentially in a better avenue elsewhere, perhaps improving the delivery methods on offer. So I think that's understanding who your consumers are reading white papers from, from someone like Klarna or from any one of these other providers. And even if it can provide a sort of small snippet of information that you can then use and build into your business. And overall, across 12 months, it's going to have a much better impact, and just simply sort of plodding along and not evolving

Miz Trujillo 12:56

Amazing, amazing coming back to one of our favorites topics on the podcast. The infamous abandoned carts are the pain in every seller's back if we look at the data gathered from consumer behaviour or millennial purchasing trends, what does it really tell us about why these shopping carts are being left behind?

Matthew Scott 13:19

Yeah, I mean, it's I tend to think there's probably two main groups in this. There's the consumers that you can address. And there's also the consumers that you can't address to the consumers that you can address this is by looking at why are they abandoned that basket? Have they abandon it for something that I can change. So when my delivery methods, not just up to scratch, do they not know what my returns policy was, but also one of the really, really key or one of the best things I've seen recently, and in terms of abandoned basket email is not here is a 5% on his a 10% discount code from abandoning a basket. But they actually took my on site experience what I've been looking at, in this case, it was a pair of shoes, and they said, okay, maybe these weren't right for you. But based on what I actually looked at on the site, they recommended additional products that was similar to that product that I was looking at. So again, it's providing engagement without over reliance on that, that discount code and then that's where I think that you can consumers can really use our merchants can really use the the marketing campaigns and the payment options on on site. So for example, did you know that you can now use Klarna's pay later option on the site, drive that customer back to the site, even if they don't purchase, but it does come back to knowing your consumers and why they are abandoning, are they abandoning because they can't afford the purchase, are they're abandoning simply because they became bored and and the process was too long? Or are they annoyed because they don't understand the delivery methods, our option, and that's why they've abandoned the basket. So think it's very difficult to and basically paint everyone with the same brush. But there definitely are a few ways that you can get get the most out of these abandoned basket emails or pop ups. And I think experimenting with the messaging, the color schemes and things that that can give you really, really good insight into how you can get the best ROI from a system like that.

Miz Trujillo 15:24

Perfect. Yes. I mean, you mentioned personalisation. I know obviously, there's a big percentage of abandoned carts which, which occurred because people change their mind. But we had a great episode on personalisation with Segmentify recently on the podcast. And obviously, if you can be recommending similar things that they can be picking out, you can hopefully lower that percentage drastically. Another big percentage from abandoned carts also comes because people think the shipping cost is too high, or the delivery will take too long. Maybe Karim, what would you recommend sellers be providing in terms of this, that will percentage of abandoned carts even lower?

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 16:05

Well, it all comes down to one word, which is value. And like Matt said, You need to know your customers. And you need to know their expectation. And we live in an era where people are used to shopping on websites like Amazon where the delivery is usually less than two or three days, or even one day if you have Prime, and this is something that gets ingrained into consumer habits to like, show the shipping times is definitely one of the things that people want to look at, because during that becoming more and more important, and also like in terms of value as in the product itself? Like, is it something that really improves the lives of your customers? Or is it something that they really desire and they're really want to get their hands on? Are you unique, like the when we talk about abandoned cart, this could be like an infinite amount of reasons why they would like they could be something really mundane as someone got distracted, and they actually forget about the cart and you just send them a reminder, and you don't need any discounts or anything and it just going to include it and make that purchase. Or it could be because they actually have five tabs open on their browser and actually look at the same product in different competitors. And they actually found a cheaper version or a shorter shipping time, these are all the things that it should be taken into consideration. But once again, that all comes down to value. What is your product, is it the best one for your customers? Is it worth buying? Are your shipping terms good enough and fast enough? And also, the one of the last points but not least, is the guarantees that you offer. Like, especially for higher ticket products. When you think about it, when there's more thinking behind the scenes, there's more research from the customer side. And they want this guarantee that their money's been taken. But at the same time, they can have it back they actually are not satisfied with their purchase. So these are all things that go back again to does the customer like and trust your business. If they do they're going to buy from you. And then you have tools like Klarna that can help out this process and make it less painful.

Miz Trujillo 18:16

Absolutely. Thank you, Karim. Something I wanted to touch on on I guess we have touched on it in a way about multi device integration. But I wanted to highlight the importance of simplicity and the right of sites running smoothly all the way through. We live in a very convenience focused society, we want things at our fingertips. We want them to work well. And we want them now. What does this mean for ecommerce stores? How should it be affecting both front end but also the back end of sites? So not only in terms of the user experience, but of the data we collect? And how we look at pushing customers through our funnel map? Matt, maybe?

Matthew Scott 18:57

Yeah, I think you hit on a really interesting point here. I think merchants who often will focus on how smooth the site runs as a from a front end point of view. So how quickly do pages load How quickly can a customer get to the basket page? How can it can see have we're looking at consumer consume information on the site, which is obviously really important. But if you have a great front end and the back end sort of falls over consumers are going to be aware of this. So a really good example of this is actually did a purchase just recently for Christmas present. And from a well known high street retailer luxury goods and I ordered it to be delivered to a store and I was I was on the impression that I will receive notification updates on when my goods have been picked when it had been packed and when they've been dispatched and ready the collection and that was actually collected last still to this day. Do not have any label now from exactly for me from my point of view, I now have to contact the retailer, I have to take time out my day to contact the retailer elsewhere. This order is so this is a classic example of the front end really easy, really slick, really smooth for me, the consumer but the back end is falling down to such a point that I probably won't won't purchase from them again. Or if I do I will compare them directly to the competitor before I do so.

So the end to end journey is really, really important. And I think consumers are more and more savvy in terms of looking at review size, are there lots of people complaining about the time it takes to get a refund process? How do I actually contact the retailer if I do have an issue? So all of the the back end processes that perhaps weren't and looked at under a microscope as the front end become really, really important when it comes to second, third and fourth purchase from a consumer. And those those consumers are the ones that you'll generate the most revenue from, it's quite easy to convert a single user once or relatively easy but it's getting getting that that user to convert a second, third and fourth time that really outlines that your processes of working in relation to your team is actually looking for. So that end to end journey. And this includes the returns and refunds process, making sure that is slick, or smooth as possible is really, really important in terms of retaining existing customers as well as acquiring new ones.

Miz Trujillo 21:25

Absolutely. I wanted to touch on customer retention. And we'll do that in a second. First of all, I hope you get your, your order. Okay. Because that's, that's very important. Karim, anything you'd add on this note before before we move on.

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 21:41

Yeah, I mean, like we, we always talk about online and being futureproof. But to your point, like, we still live in the omni channel, omni channel way of doing business, where loads of friends, you don't have bricks and mortar stores that they use on top of their ecommerce brand, these are all things that can be interlinked that can work really, really well to get her when when things are done well. The for instance, like an example that I would give here is some retailers would have, click and collect like what you were referring to Matt, and people would go and collect their order a store. But at the same time, they would look around and they would be exposed to like all these other products that they have around them physically. And they usually have one or two as an add on and upsell. And on the other hand, like, especially in the fashion industry or fashion retailers and with the highest level of return compared to any other industry, this is actually an opportunity for them to have those returns in store convert into other purchases for other products. So one thing that looks like a risk and expected loss from a direct point of view can actually turn into an opportunity into extra revenue at the end. On the other hand, when things are well and when the omni channel all the channels are integrated as one.

Miz Trujillo 23:04

Perfect, thank you, Karim. Matt touched on a point as I mentioned that I wanted to talk a little bit about and it's another popular subject matter on the podcast. The cost of acquisition versus retention, the fact that it can cost anything from five to 25 times more to acquire a new customer than to retain one and a new stat I found this week and I found interesting that increasing retention rates by just 5% could help increase profits by anything from 25 to 95%. So with this in mind, how important is the customer post purchase experience? What should sellers be doing or offering in order to make this as smooth as possible? Matt?

Matthew Scott 23:48

I think it's massively important, I think you can throw in vast sums of money on SEO, PPC, basically customer acquisition. But if I purchase this pair of shoes, for example, and then the returns process of the refund process is labourious, requires lots of input for me lots of chasing from the consumer, then that consumer is very, very unlikely to be to purchase from yourselves. Again, as a retailer, this is a huge opportunity. Because if you can make that that process which if we look as a whole, the return or the refund or query process is really, really annoying for a consumer standpoint. If we can make that process slick, easy, simple, then, even in the worst case scenario, that I have an issue with an order if I can actually answer my own questions on an FAQ page or in live chat, for example, then you're you're removing one of the biggest barriers to me repurchasing again, so even if the shoes arrive, and then not the right fit, if I can return them to you. And my refund is processed very quickly or that kept in the loop essentially, or in the case of Klarna, if the company is actually paid on pay later, there is none, none of that refund query or questioning or waiting from consumer standpoint. So again, this now becomes a really good channel, you can then target because you know that you've given that consumer a better experience and than they're used to. What we can see from from our data is customers who have a smooth post purchase experience are much more likely to leave a review, for example, and go back on and purchase again. So from a retailer point of view, it's a huge opportunity to maximize the overall benefits of having a smooth front end, if you ensure that the back end process is also smooth, and you keep the customer informed at what stage their refund is, a really good example, I have half of this, I've recently bought a snowboard and I received three automated emails, post purchase. And the first was to let me know that the goods have been picked and packed. Second one, wants me to know, that it actually been and dispatched and delivered. And the third one was thank you very much for you, or is there anything else that we can do for you now, are there any issues that we can help with, and then that email actually contain a link to an FAQ page where all of my common questions will be answered. So as a consumer, I know that I can go into the email and I can see all the answers that I might need. And off the top of my head, I would have to communicate with the customer. And in essence, that hasn't really taken much input from the retailer, all they've done is taken their FAQ page and put it into an email and sent it to you, so they've done they've done a really good job and making sure that I'm happy end to end, yes, it was a high ticket purchase. But when I next go to buy accessories for that snowboard, for a skiing jacket, for example, I'm much more likely not to go back to them. Because I've had a better experience than I was expecting. That's an example of how a retailer can really understand what their consumers looking for. But also address a lot of their potential post purchase questions or queries, upfront.

Miz Trujillo 27:11

Absolutely the power of leaving a customer happy is so huge, and then retaining them to make more profit. And the interesting thing you mentioned about reviews as well, is that depending on how they're worded, that they can actually leave the customer feeling even happier too, when a customer is told that their review is going to help better their company and their experience that they, they get something out of that, and they feel like they're involved. And yeah, it's so important for, for the seller to get this information and to have those reviews on the web page. And Karim, maybe anything you'd add on on this note?

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 27:46

I mean, not pretty much covered, covered it all, like when you think about it, people forget about the customer and company relationship. And you think about just two people having a relationship. And it's all about how you feel about the other person equally, would you actually invite them to your party again, oh, which is literally just that like the you usually won't actually remember all the interactions and all the emails, etc, that you've received from a company, but you always remember how you feel about them. And all these tools and techniques are all about bringing the best customer experience and actually making your customers happy. And even like Matt says, exceeding their expectations when you can. And this is the best thing you can do. So that not only are they more likely to recommend you, even though happy customers as less likely to recommend you then unhappy customers are likely to say to put you down, so that's like another side of the coin to take into consideration. But yeah, like it, it kind of plays into this also word of mouth, like whether with their direct relatives, or through reviews, like you said

Miz Trujillo 28:58


Matthew Scott 29:00

I think just on that topic, it's actually quite interesting. We obviously monitor social social channels for us when we launch potential new brands. And to actually see ordinary customers tweeting or posting on social channels about the new launch. And are genuinely excited that they're tagging their their friends and their family or colleagues in posts on social media about the different payment type. In this case, it's actually quite interesting from our standpoint. So we can actually see those customers that we have provided a better experience to retailers have provided a better experience to will then become advocates for a brand or a payment type in this case on social media. And therefore they become your biggest their biggest marketing acquisition channel, essentially, you're not you're paying them affiliate fee on this or not, and giving a discount code essentially these customers are tweeting off their own back in the case of they had a better experience before, and they're recommending that experience. And that's a lot of potential customers. So that's the sort of Holy Grail that everyone wants to chase. And essentially, when you actually break down all we've done all the return of stuff is given that customer better.

Miz Trujillo 30:17

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that's exactly where we want to be. If people are tweeting and, and telling other people about your company, because they want to, and they've got nothing to gain themselves, then it means you're, you're really providing them with a great experience you're doing, you're doing things right. I wanted to get your opinion on an article that I was reading on Marketing Week, which I thought tied in nicely with the subject we've been discussing. And it has to do with how direct to consumer brands are reshaping marketing. Now, we see dealing directly with your consumer means you understand them well, and can adapt very quickly to their needs. If you were to give advice to budding entrepreneurs who are thinking about starting a brand new venture? Would that be an approach you would recommend in order to more easily keep on top of changing consumer behaviors? Or would you encourage them to look at drop shipping as a starting point? Matt? Maybe?

Matthew Scott 31:11

Yeah, it's really it's a really interesting question. I think it totally depends on on the product or the sort of angle that you have as a business. I think there's definitely pros and cons for both sides. But I think going direct to consumer as a as a starting point allows you to learn at a much quicker rate than going by a third party. Yes, it does have risks. I'm sure, Karim can you can elaborate on that. But from my, from my point of view, if you go direct to consumer, you get the feedback loop straight away, it's not buyer, a third party so you're able to learn, adapt and change with your consumers as well, rather than being reactionary. You can actually be so proactive in that aspect. So I think does give you a big edge, but it is about again, it's a case of knowing your consumer and also your product.

Miz Trujillo 32:05

Karim, anything you'd add?

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 32:09

Pretty much like my my line of code is really, really similar. And also in the sense of what you're thinking about for your business, are you actually looking for more long term success? Or do you just want to make some quick cash and just get out of it, drop shipping is a really attractive idea in terms of outsourcing, getting like your hands off most of the logistics, and most of the production and distribution etc. but too much point like you're, you're kind of retreating yourself from the whole core of your business. And this is the part that is going to help you get the feedback from your customers and also know your product more know your systems more and have more control over it. And these are things that also kind of build trust with your customers as in if they find out that you're drop shipping and most of its they will because you should put a disclaimer on your website about it. It kind of reduces the trust levels because they basically you're basically saying, we're selling you this, but we're actually not making it and we're not shipping it and we're just intermediaries. So yeah, like in my personal opinion, I was trying to push people to avoid drop shipping unless it's the only solution that they have available. But it's usually the easiest one to begin with. But once when you can like switch to controlling the core of your business soon as you can

Miz Trujillo 33:36

Perfect. Well. Hopefully that leaves our listeners with something to think about before we start wrapping things up when it comes to adapting ecommerce stores changing consumer behavior, is there anything you think we need to touch on to leave our listeners with Matt?

Matthew Scott 33:56

Yeah, I think one of the biggest, one of the tips I would give to retailers is go and look at what your competitors are doing. But also go and look at what a market leader in another sector a completely different sector. So if you're in fashion, go have a look at one of the leading electrical retailers, for example, and look at their experience from landing page to actual point of purchase or learn from what they're doing what they're doing well, and also potentially what they're not doing doing so well, because consumer needs will vary. But if you can get ahead of the curve by seeing what someone in electricals is doing really well feed that into your your business then you can benefit from from that change much quicker than if you were being reactionary to one of your competitors, somebody's offering it. So I think that would be my piece of advice. And then also just look at look at the changing landscape, there are loads of different white papers out there on the changing ecommerce landscape. So just try and keep up to date as much as possible with new developments or new releases in that in that aspect. I think about leave you in pretty good stead.

Miz Trujillo 35:04

Karim, if you had to reiterate something we've talked about on the show today. Something to leave our listeners with, what would it be from you

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 35:18

If it was just one thing. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the consumers? And what would you like to see in an experience?

Miz Trujillo 35:27

Perfect. Well, you can mention more if you've got more I'm happy to I'm happy to have more I'm not going to stop you at one.

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 35:35

I mean it's all about I know we're specializing in online business. But we always have to remember that there are real people behind those screens that we sell to and be need to take that into consideration. They have feelings they have their lives to going on. And these are all things that you need to think of whenever you build this customer experience that you integrated as well as you can within their own lives. And I guess personalisation plays a big role in this now, but also yeah, like try to bring as much value as we can try to use the tools that you need. And always think about leaving your customers happy.

Miz Trujillo 36:16

Perfect. Thank you so much, Karim, thank you to both of you for being on the show. It's been absolutely great talking to you.

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 36:24

Yeah, but it's really great. Thank you very much. Sure. Excellent.

Miz Trujillo 36:26

So a huge thank you to all our listeners to and you can find links to both Klarna and Underwaterpistol in the description below, as well as to any reports we've mentioned. Thanks for listening. And thanks again, Matt and Karim.

Karim Bel Hadj Soulami 36:41

Thank you

Matthew Scott 36:42



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